Back with another edition of Words with P.R. I am back from Nashville, TN and had a bit of post-vacation blues. I learned a lot about myself on this trip. First off, six days is a little too long to visit one city. Next time I am on vacation for six days, I think I want to split that time between a couple different places. But all in all, I had an amazing time. I was in “Music City” for the big 4 WWE PPV: SummerSlam weekend…
Read moreWords with P.R. (Edition 12) - Nobody Wins When the Family Feuds
By Patricia Rogers | Posted Friday, June 17, 2022
I am happy to finally be recapping the time I had at last month’s Invictus Pro Wrestling show in Ridgefield Park, New Jersey. It was one of the first big wrestling shows that would bring my favorite people in black wrestling together again since Wrestlemania 38 in Dallas. However, this one was special because it indeed was a family affair.
If you listen to my wrestling podcast, you have heard me talk about how my Dad got us all into wrestling. When I was growing up in the 90’s, it was all about watching Monday Night RAW. The weekly program during the “Attitude Era” was must-watch television. This was before streaming, YouTube, etc. So you had to make sure that you watched it when it aired or you would miss out. It was truly an exciting time, and I feel lucky to have experienced this with my family.
The monthly pay-per-views though is when the entire family got together. I have always been blessed to live down the hall from my God family. My Godmother, sister, and brothers were always close enough so that we can share our lives together. And wrestling, there was no exception. On those Sunday nights, they would come down the hall to watch the shows with us. My mom would cook a big meal, and it was the one Sunday a month where we could all stay up past my bedtime.
My Dad is surprised that we all still love wrestling the way that we do. But I think the most surprising part for him and me is the impact it had on my Godbrother, who is now a wrestler named J Boujii.
When I got back into wrestling around 2015, I was in love with it all over again. But it was the history and what goes on outside of the ring that fascinated me the most. This led to creating the podcast. However, when I talked to my Godbrother, it was all about what was inside the ring. He told me that he was working towards the goal of the Best Wrestler in the World.
You know at first, I was kind of worried and also like, are you sure you want to do this? The more I learned about the wrestling business, especially breaking into it, the more I was concerned that he was in way over his head. J Boujii, real name John Ruebel, was born in 1997 and was really close to my twin sister Letty and I. Letty and I were the youngest, so when John was born it was the first time we had someone younger to be around. So from the day he was born, we were protective of him.
He assured me that he knew what he was doing and was training with the best. I was able to watch him in some of his first matches and at the gym he was training with. Going to Gleason’s Gym in Brooklyn where he trained with WWE Hall of Famer Johnny Rodz, my concern eased greatly when I was able to see what a leader John was. He was smart, mature, and determined to make it and for the wrestling business to work for him.
So after having a couple of years of the wrestling podcast under my belt, I was able to reconnect with John to see how we can work together in wrestling because we exist on completely different sides of things — him being the athlete in the ring telling stories, and me commenting on wrestling outside of the ring. Earlier this year, I noticed that he was going to be in the biggest match of his career thus far.
J Boujii and the other three members of his faction, Takeover, were facing one of the most popular and successful factions on the independent wrestling scene, Shane Taylor Promotions. I was so excited because we all knew that this was the moment that would put J. Boujii on the map. This match was going to be a game-changer.
In the months leading up to the Invictus Takeover vs STP show, my Godbrother went into overdrive promoting the show all over social media. And his opponent Rev Ron Hunt of STP, did all that he could to hype the match. After an eventful Instagram Live, the hype was tangible as it became a Croc vs Ring light debate, which brought wrestling podcast producer Brian H. Waters into the storyline. So, the most anticipated match for the Takeover vs STP show was now a Bodega Street Fight having J. Boujii facing Rev Ron Hunt with Brian H. Waters serving as the guest referee.
Brian, also a lifelong wrestling fan, lived a dream that night in Ridgefield Park, NJ:
“Refereeing at Invictus Pro was an experience of a lifetime. As a pro wrestling fan, for my entire life I never thought that I would have an opportunity to do such a job.
Being in the ring, you could feel the electricity of the moment as both J. Boujii and Rev Ron Hunt entered the ring. ‘Big fight feel’ would be the best way to describe it.
During the match, I was doing my best not to mess up. I didn’t want to draw attention to myself or get in the way. Both men are professionals and knew that this was my first time being a referee, so they were patient with me.
The stipulation was if J. Boujii won, I would have to wear Crocs. He did get in my face one time, so my hands may have hit the surface a little quickly when Ron pinned him the first time. But in the end, I did count to three and unfortunately wear those Crocs. But one thing I can say… I was fair.
This is def something I would love to do it again… if the storyline dictates it.”
You can watch the full match here.
I could not be more proud of my Godbrother and his crew that came up in Gleason’s Gym. It was a night that showed me that I had nothing to worry about when it came to John. If anything, I became the biggest J. Boujii fan and can not wait to see how far he goes in this business. And what made that show the most memorable wrestling event I have ever been to, is that it was truly a family affair.
My Godsister Ivory (John’s mother) was there, my twin sister Letty took phenomenal photos of the event, and my closest friends Krista B., Seindole, Justin, Janelle and Dre of Jobber Tears Podcast were there. Brian H. Waters, one of my favorite people in the wrestling space, traveled from Baltimore, Maryland to guest referee, bringing along his Wrestling Wrealm brother Hugh.
The funniest part though is that during the Bodega Street Fight, I was so happy to be there I pretty much cheered for everyone. Much to my Godsister’s chagrin, who hated that I cheered for Ron. But I am also a Shane Taylor Promotions fan. I was just so happy about both Takeover and the STP factions getting more recognition. And then to have Brian, Hugh, and Letty a part of it, and my friends sitting front row, I was just soo happy to be there.
This show emphasized that it is important to support your friends and family at any level. And everything is more special when there are loved ones around. I can not wait to do more in the independent wrestling space that will continue to uplift the black community.
MEET
Stephen Thompson, CEO of SZN Media
I met Stephen in Dallas, Texas through Brian who was his mentor when they were at Morgan State together. He shared that he also worked in media, recently moved to New Jersey from Maryland, and wanted to do more with his business, SZN Media.
What are your goals for SZN Media?
Stephen: My goals with SZN Media is to bring seasons to life! This can be anything a client may need from a media standpoint in order to propel them in their purpose. Overall, my goal for SZN Media is to grow it to a successful marketing agency with a full staff and office environment.
What is the best piece of advice you have received?
Stephen: The best piece of advice I heard was “Impact”. Impact is an abbreviation that my grandfather used and it means “I must personally act.” This means that within life, I am in many situations and it’s up to me to make change and provide action when necessary.
SOCIAL MEDIA MARKETING TIPS
In 2022, nothing matters in life if you do not create media content surrounding it. Think about it, do we do anything without documenting it on social media? Whether its checking in on Facebook, posting photos on Instagram, or creating TikToks, we all feel the compulsion to capture moments and curate them for the world for your followers to see. Your social media presence, depending on what you do for a living, is the snapshot of who you are as a person. That is a lot of pressure, but it is important to make sure that it is the highest quality.
So make sure that when you do capture these moments, like when I wanted to get good memories of J. Bouji’’s big match, take the time to have professional photographers, videographers, etc. Investing in your brand is the best thing you can do .
Words with P.R. (Edition 11) - Mystic Meg is on POINT!
By Patricia Rogers | Posted Monday, June 13, 2022
Intro
So, sometimes things are just cosmic.
Mystic Meg has been on POINT.
My sun sign is Capricorn, my moon is Cancer and my rising sign is Gemini. To be honest, I have no idea what any of that means, but at the same time I feel like it means everything. Astrology is fun and gives you a fun and light-hearted something to help you make sense of the world.
I have always been into astrology ever since my older sister Nakia introduced my twin sister and me to it when we were in junior high school. I love reading up on the traits of Capricorn women and finding similarities to my own personality. Again, I do not know how much stake to put into it, but it is fun to see how they can match up to what life really is.
Recently my horoscope has been on point. When I used to read my horoscope, every now and then I felt it said something that was just what I was going through in my life. But the past couple of weeks it has been more aligned with what I have been going through in my personal, professional, and love life.
I read,
You are living the dream but it can always be better.
I have to stop saying that I am "lucky" when good things happen to me. I am incredibly blessed and thankful for the people I have in my life, the opportunities I thought I would never have.
QUEEN P.R.’S PICKS
The Whitney Museum
I do not go to art museums as much as I want to because I don’t want to go alone, and when I drag my friends, I can not really enjoy myself. I like to look at every single painting and read every description. But I was able to go to the Whitney Museum, which is located in the Meatpacking District, last month for a couple of exhibits I was excited about:
The Whitney Biennial, At the Dawn of the New age: Early Twentieth-Century American Modernism, and The Whitney’s Collection: Selections from 1900 to 1965.
The pieces were thought-evoking, and I found myself stopping at certain ones and even being drawn to paintings when I walked into another room.
Some of my favorites were the pop-culture inspired sculptures, and the pieces by Georgia O'Keeffe. The pastels, vibrancy and details in the exhibits were truly breathtaking.
The day in general was one of those nice Saturdays in New York: A day at the museum, walk to Tribeca to finally enjoy the Harry Potter store, and ending it with drinks at Barcade.
If you are in the NYC area, check out the Whitney Museum.
SHOUTOUT TO THE MIXED TAG SHOW
The Mixed Tag Show was one of the first wrestling podcasts of color I discovered on social media, mainly because I knew ½ of the duo, Blue, from my time in New Jersey. I met Blue through a good friend of mine, Marie David, who I bonded with over our ambition. She worked for him at Hot 97, and Blue was a close friend of the David family. Me and him both missed her brand launch party because we got tickets to go to Wrestlemania 29 which happened to be in New Jersey in 2013 when she launched LadiSav. So me and Blue bonded over being wrestling fans.
Fast forward 5 years later, and he has launched his own wrestling podcast with Jenna Baybee, a Brooklyn-based Sasha Banks fanatic who is beautiful, stylish and knows her wrestling. Their dynamic is that of a big brother and little sister. Their skits in affiliation with the WWE Shop also helped put them on the map as one of the more entertaining wrestling podcasts out there.
Recently, I was asked to be a part of their live stream on Twitch discussing the narrative about former WWE Women’s Tag Team Champions Sasha Banks and Naomi “walking out” of a May episode of WWE Raw. I also streamed it from Those Wrestling Girls’ Twitch & Youtube, and it is already our most-watched piece of content ever. The title “Black Women Need More Respect” says it all. I thank Blue and Jenna for inviting me on. And also to Doc of Bleacher Report for being a gracious guest.
SOCIAL MEDIA MARKETING TIPS
Upcoming Events & Community Building
When it comes to networking horizontally, no one does that better than the black wrestling fan community. Ever since Jobber Slam last summer, an all-black wrestling event presented by Jobber Tear’s Podcast Network, we have been having what we call “family reunions” at events all year long.
After that it was the meet-up after WWE SmackDown at Madison Square Garden, my first live wrestling show since after the pandemic, then our 3rd anniversary event in Midtown Dallas for Wrestlemania 38, and now it’s time for Black Wrestle Fest for Juneteenth weekend in Brooklyn, and Jobber Slam 2. Oh, and we are already planning our 4th anniversary event in October in New York City. So stay tuned for that.
Now, during the pandemic I put a lot of time into the digital side of our brand, cultivating our online community by hosting watch-alongs over Zoom, etc. But when things got back to normal, it was time to make sure we were building community in real life.
So, we are hoping to be a part of more indie wrestling, getting back to the reason why we love wrestling in the first place. Since Dallas, I have joined friends at the Battle Club Pro show in Brooklyn, Invitus Pro, and coming up this summer: Black Wrestle Fest, Black Girl Magik, Jobber Slam and planning our 4th anniversary event in October in New York City.
Words with P.R. (Edition 9) - Dealing with Loss
By Patricia Rogers | Posted Monday, May 16, 2022
Seeing yourself how other people see you
INTRO — LOSS
My sister and I have been joking about how in the last 3 years time has become a "mind fuck". Things that happened in 2019 feel like 3 weeks ago and things that happened last year feel like it was years ago. It is mind-blowing how much the world has changed in such a short time.
In my orbit, I have experienced a lot of loss. And because of how I am built, I try to just pick my head up, swim forward, and try not to look back. But I do have to take a second and accept that life has been fucking hard, and I have been doing all I can to get through.
This edition is dedicated to the loved ones I have lost since the pandemic started: my creative writing teacher Ms. Bremmer, my Grandmother, Cousin Sameemah, Natalia, Kenny, and my high school love Deshon. There is not a day that goes by that I don't think of all of you and what you meant to my life. Your friends, family, students, and loved ones are forever in my thoughts and prayers.
If you are reading this I urge you to please let people know what they mean to you while you can. You never know when it will be the last time you hear from them.
PICKS — NOSTALGIA & REREADING HARRY POTTER
I am normally a pretty nostalgic person, but I have to admit that the heartbreak of loss led me to want to go back in time when things in my life seemed perfect.
One of those safe spaces for me growing up besides wrestling was always Harry Potter. What made HP special to me growing up was being able to get lost in the wizarding world. Learn lessons about the hard choices in life between love and hate, good and evil, easy and right, and countless others.
So my sister and are in the middle of rereading the series, it would be her first time and my third or fourth. The big thing for me is the message of bravery and pushing through the hardships for the greater good. If you love watching the Harry Potter movies (I mean, come on, when is it not on TV) then I highly recommend reading the book series. JK Rowling can be problematic, but the magic she delivered with the books can be considered life-changing.
LESSONS — LIVING UP TO HOW PEOPLE SEE YOU
One of the most influential voices in our lives is the ones that are inside our heads. The one that speaks to us and determines how we see ourselves. I think that is why people loved Issa Rae's bathroom mirror raps where she would motivate herself to be the best person that she could be for herself.
I recently lost my high school love who since the day we met put me on a pedestal. He thought I was the prettiest, smartest, flyest, and the most amazing girl he ever knew. And I loved that at the time when we were both teenagers. We broke up 14 years ago and he never changed his view of me. I hadn't seen him since high school graduation but we kept in touch by a phone call a few times a year. And he still talked about the positive impact I had on his life, and how much he wished he’d had it all this time.
I have to admit, I took him and this light he saw me in for granted. I used to be annoyed that my ex was still trying to get with me or saw me as the 15-year-old girl he fell in love with. But now, that he is gone and I have dealt with so much emotion over the years, I would give anything to hear his voice tell me how perfect I am. Losing Deshon has been understandably heartbreaking but it did come with a lesson for me, to never take people for granted.
At his funeral, I was reunited with high school friends. Sucked that it takes a funeral to bring us back together but it was nice to see them. It was comforting to me when we all went back to the same dynamic of friendship, and we all had the same personalities even all these years later. We all claimed to make sure we kept in touch after the service, and well knew that probably wasn’t true. However, it was nice to come together in Deshon’s memory and it was just like it would have been back in high school.
TIPS — HOW MUCH IS TOO SEXY?
“Sex sells” I have been hearing that since I was younger, and grew up through sex tape scandals, and the birth of OnlyFans. As a woman, there is this pressure to appeal to the male gaze for success. It is unfair and yet it is also a way that women have been able to feel empowered. I have been glad to see society start to change its views on sex work, strippers, and women being naked because they like being naked. But then there is that thin line of, how much is too sexy?
My tip for social media and brand marketing when it comes to sex appeal is to do what makes you feel comfortable. I personally use the motto that I dont post or engage in content that I would not be proud to show my Dad. But that is me. Obviously, there will be influencers who pose in lingerie for work and must have parents that are okay with it, which is why I say it depends on each individual’s comfort level.
Your followers appreciate and follow you for the authenticity of your account. If you do not feel comfortable being “sexy” it will not resonate. So when you do take that step just make sure it is something you want to do
SHOUTOUT — BATTLE CLUB PRO — SWOLE'S PROMO
4/20 this year, I went outside to Brooklyn for Battle Club Pro’s Women Crush Wednesday wrestling show. The all-female card featured some of indie wrestling’s darlings like Trish Adora and Willow Nightengale. The highlight for me however was being able to see Big Swole in another main even title match defending her Battle Club Pro championship. After the hard-hitting match against Trish, Swole cut a promo that nearly brought tears to my eyes. There have been many moments in the last couple of months that made me so incredibly happy to be a wrestling fan, and this was one of them.
Swole is a black woman in wrestling who has always been outspoken, and unapologetic about the experience of being a black female wrestler. Her well-known departure from All Elite Wrestling & falling out with owner Tony Khan allowed showed us just how hard it can be. Swole however has always held her head high and been a voice for those that need it in the industry.
Here is some of her groundbreaking promo:
“I’ll be champ forever
Can’t Nobody can come in here and take what I take
Can’t Nobody can come in here and do what I do
Can’t nobody come in here and wrestle how I wrestle
OKAY
Except for Trish Fucking Adora
You want to talk about a diamond in the rough?
You want to talk about a woman that’s paid her dues?
You want to talk about a woman that cares for this business?
That was just one
When it comes to winning and defending this
Here as ya’ll champion
I’m going to give the people that have no say
I’m going to give the people that have been loyalty
The ones that whose not trying to turn their back or change
We are icons
We are woman
We are idols to the younger generation, the children who are watching us
We will be the change because that is what battle club is all about
Please give it up to Trish Adora
I’m going to say this
Battle Club is one of the only places that actually believed in me
Joakim is one of the only promoters that flew me out and gave me the time and day
I owe so much to this man.
I owe my career to this man
If it wasn't for God putting me in his ear, I would not be here
So I thank Joakim,
I thank (Hard to hear)
I thank my all-mighty father
Ya’ll have a good night”
I am excited to see what Big Swole continues to teach and bring to all women in wrestling.
Words with P.R. (Edition 8) - Wrestling is a Love Story
By Patricia Rogers | Posted Monday, May 9, 2022
"Wrestling is a love story,” - Cody Rhodes
INTRO
I am back from Dallas and feeling better than ever. I had the pleasure of going to Texas for WWE Wrestlemania as a part of my women’s wrestling podcast, Those Wrestling Girls.
If I had one word to describe what wrestling fans call “Mania Week” is passion.
When hoards of fans travel to the host city of the biggest wrestling events in the world, the streets are filled with people dressed in t-shirts adorned with their favorite stars, and championship belts.
It is almost like everyone there is buzzing with excitement. There is love in the air because we are all there for the same reason, the love of pro wrestling.
This was the first time my friend and co-host Krista B. and I were able to travel outside of New York for Mania Week. The entire trip was one of firsts, and I can say it was the best weekend of my life. I got to meet a lot of friends that I have known online for years for the first time. Including other black wrestling podcasters, and tastemakers in the industry. We were able to have fun, network, and make unforgettable memories including working out of the press box, floor seats to see my all-time favorite, WWE Hall of Famer and Texas native Stone Cold Steve Austin (TWICE!), and the bonding that took place at the after after-parties.
I am already planning the next trip to Los Angeles, California for 2023.
MEET
KIPP AMP School teacher, musician, & Wrestling Club founder Mr. Perry. Okay, his name is Victor but I was introduced to him by my mother as that so for my sister and me, he will always be Mr. Perry.
He is a great sixth-grade teacher and one that many of us wish we had when we were younger. Like myself, he grew up a wrestling fan and there were times that he did not have other people with whom he was able to talk about it. My mother introduced us, and we have been good friends ever since.
I was honored when he sent me his proposal to start a wrestling club in his school, KIPP AMP Brooklyn. Students can come to his classroom on lunch breaks to watch matches and documentaries. After the club was approved by the school he posted pictures and videos of his students enjoying marquee matches and it soon went viral. Everyone praised the young teacher for bringing wrestling to his students, and how fans of all ages and backgrounds wished they had a teacher like Mr. Perry.
Not only were other fans inspired by what Mr. Perry was doing, but so were WWE superstars themselves. It was not long before one of the biggest WWE superstars in the world reached out to Mr. Perry asking to visit his club. She is someone who has had a passion for wrestling since watching WWE for the first time at 10 years old. Sasha Banks had to face many obstacles growing up and has been very vocal about how much wrestling has saved her life and given her a purpose. So I can only imagine what it meant to her to see Mr. Perry’s students enjoying a club like that.
“One day while I was in the middle of class teaching, I got a Twitter notification and I briefly looked and saw that it was from WWE. I had to keep calm while in class and after class, I read the message and saw that Sasha really wanted to come to see The Wrestling Club… Never did I actually think that could happen. From that interaction on we made it happen. I have so much love for WWE for working with me and the school to create such a beautiful moment that will live forever in the lives of my students. I've gotten phone calls, text messages, emails, from students telling me how much it meant to them,” says Victor Perry.
The students lost their minds and were so moved by her visit. Banks answered questions from the kids who were eloquent, respectful, and filled with joy. I think the most memorable part for me was seeing how much it meant to the kids but also what it meant to Sasha Banks. She kept thanking Mr. Perry and the entire moment was genuine and emotional.
He went on to share with me, “Meeting Sasha I realized quickly that she was like the sister I never had. She's so easy to talk to. She was so warm and inviting and you could see the joy all over her face. I think this moment not only meant a lot for my kiddos but it also meant a lot to her. She got to dance and sing to her iconic theme song, answer and give some insightful words of wisdom and take the best photos ever with The Wrestling Club. She's inspiring a whole generation, the future. Not many people can say that! I'm really happy we could make this possible. I hope we can continue to have others stop by and hang out with the kids in the club. I want The Wrestling Club to be the coolest club ever."
Relive the entire experience with me exclusively on Those Wrestling Girls Patreon. Thank you, Sasha Banks, WWE, KIPP AMP Brooklyn, and Mr. Perry for making that moment happen for those kids. Glad I was able to experience that.
SHOUT-OUT
The University of Orange, the free-people university and non-profit organization based in Orange, New Jersey is gearing up for its annual music festival this month.
The 6th annual Music City Festival takes place from May 13-15 at eight different outdoor venues around the city. Over 50 musicians will be performing in partnership with the following restaurants: D’3Fold, Reddz Bistro & Grill, Sarrah’s Cafe Trinbago, Inner City Cafe, Four City Brewery, Benji’s Taqueria, and Hat City Kitchen.
Performers include Alexandra & Real Music, Asad & King Sykes, Big Naut, Jazz Millionaire, Paul Lombardo & Juliana Carr, Voices in Harmony, Orange All-City Chorus, Orange Concert Choir, and Mighty Marching Tornadoes.
Music has always been a part of the fabric of Orange, New Jersey. The diversity is showcased at this festival every year bringing the city together in harmony. The festival is sponsored by lead sponsors HANDS Inc., M&T Bank, DAAB Kids, co-sponsors Four City Brewery, NAACP of the Oranges & Maplewood, and Missing Link Music.
You can sign up to volunteer at the University of Orange’s Music City Festival here.
LESSONS
Great Love is Never Easy
Growing as a person and learning lessons in life along the way is probably one of my favorite things about life. It kind of makes it all makes sense to me. One thing that I have learned and accepted for the better is that nothing worth having in life will come easy. And this could not be more true when it comes to love. I don’t know if there is such thing as true love, but I do believe that we all have great loves out there that will strike you like a thunderbolt when you least expect it. It will feel intoxicating, and it will be all-consuming. However, it will not be easy. It will feel big, destructive, exuberant, dangerous, and inescapable.
As a writer, I like to think that the storm great love brings into your life is worth it because great love stories are the best stories. And whether we like it or not, the best stories make us laugh, cry, angry, sad, and happy. In real life, not so much. But I will always say that experiencing love in life is a blessing and believe that it is better to have love and loss than to never have loved at all.
SOCIAL MEDIA/BRAND MARKETING TIPS
It’s Okay to Rebrand
The tip this week is probably a little hypocritical as I tend to preach about how important branding is. This means your brand’s tone, voice, colors, logos, and even the font. But I learned that social media is always changing and you have to evolve with the ever-changing strategies. I think it is important to find the balance between trying new things to see what works and also keeping up the brand loyalty you have built with your followers and listeners.
These tips are for those who have not gone to college for social media marketing but for those who are creative up-starts and were brave enough to utilize the free tools at our disposal to start their own brands and companies. We are real people, we change our minds, and a lot of creative fields are fluid. Think about fashion, every year the new It color or fit or length changes with the times. And I think the way we approach social media marketing with our brands should be the same thing.
So if in your soul, or during a meditation you want to change your logo from yellow to pink or want to start featuring different guests on your show to cater to different communities. This is okay because we all change. That is what is exciting about life.
Interview with John Kiernan (Wrestling Entrance Theme Song Composer)
By Sonia Schnee | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2022
I’ve known John Kiernan for several years now. (We originally connected when I needed a composer for some videos I produced.) What’s interesting about John — among many things — is that while he’s very much an artist/musician, he’s also a great businessman. He’s figured out how to take something that he’s passionate about (composing music) and make a career out of doing what he loves. He found an outlet as a pro wrestling entrance theme composer, and over the last two years or so he has written over 100 theme songs in a wide variety of genres. His music has been used by wrestlers the world over, and if you turn on your TV set (for those of us who still have one), you can see/hear his music being played during any number of pro wrestling events.
If you are a fan of the pro wrestling world, this interview is a must-read. If wrestling is “not your thing,” this is a still must-read for anyone who is trying to figure out how to make a living doing what they love.
Scroll to the end to find out how to get in contact with John and to listen samples of his music.
(Video and transcript have been edited for time and clarity.)
Do you want to give our audience a brief background of who you are and what you do?
JOHN KIERNAN: My name is John Kiernan. I am a wrestling entrance theme song composer from New Jersey. Right up to now, I've written over 100 themes for different wrestlers, for different promotions. I usually say “everybody except for WWE.” That's the only company I haven't worked with. I've worked with wrestlers from AEW, New Japan from Pro Wrestling, Ring of Honor, MLW. So, all around the gamut and various independent promotions. Over the last two years, it's been quite a ride, and before that I'd been doing performances, releasing instrumental music, scoring films, and performing my own music. So, a little bit of everything. But where I've been for the last couple of years has been in wrestling themes, almost exclusively now.
For people who aren't familiar with the wrestling world, can you give us a little bit of a background about how many different wrestling organizations there are and which one you're working with?
So, I usually work directly with the talent. I am the in-house composer for the United Wrestling Network, which under its umbrella has about four or five different divisions, such as Championship Wrestling from Memphis, from Hollywood, in different territories that they exist, as Championship Wrestling from (insert city here) — most notably and most recently, Championship Wrestling from Atlanta.
In terms of how many there are, oh man, there's so many. Now you have promotions out in China, you have promotions here in the U.S., you have Japanese promotions. I don't know how many countries my music has been featured in, but I'll tell you that they've been featured in a fair amount. Wrestling is a big thing, especially overseas. Wrestling's a big thing here in the States, too.
It's interesting because there’s a little bit of a parallel between, for example, soccer, where you have the World Cup and everybody kind of falls under it. All the different wrestling promotions are kind of their own independent things. Wrestlers go from place to place, but it’s more like they're independent contractors that can go anywhere, unless their contracts are tied to a specific promotion.
Where I come in is — for those who might be familiar with combat sports like UFC — before the combatants hit the ring, you hear that piece of music that plays in the intro. That's usually where my music plays, and if they win, it plays again.
What's the composing process like? Is there a lot of back and forth?
I'll always put it like this. My individual experience may differ from a lot of people because if you are a composer that is contracted to a specific organization then the chain of command might change. Gratefully — and I've been speaking to different wrestlers and different people in the industry about this — I think I'm in a really good position because I get to work with talent, usually individually, even if it is me working with a UWN talent.
Usually, they come to me or the boss comes to me and says, "Hey, we're looking for a theme for this wrestler." I get connected with the wrestler, ask him/her a couple of questions. Usually, the main questions I ask, even if I know who the wrestler is, I'll say, "What do you want the audience to know about you before you even hit the ring? Like, if someone hears your music, what do you want people to feel about you? What do you want them to get before they even see you?”
From there, sometimes they have different references, and they're like, "Oh, I'd like the theme in this style" or "This is something I think would help portray my character in a different way." So realistically, the process differs wrestler to wrestler. Sometimes you'll hear me doing a fairly heavy track like I did for a wrestler named Masha Slamovich. It's very much like a Testament meets Arch Enemy kind of feel. Then there's another wrestler named Mercedes Martinez, and her theme is more of a reggaeton-style. So it's two very different contrasting styles, but it really is dependent on what the wrestler is looking for.
I have worked with organizations where they're like, "Listen, you're just going to kind of work with us, and we want to control that narrative." (For those who are in wrestling, wink-wink, "control the narrative.") But just in general, often if you're working independently, you get to work directly with the talent. If you're contracted to a specific organization, it could be either way. Gratefully, most of mine has been directly with the talent.
You mentioned that you had to dig into a lot of different genres. Do you have a background interest in different genres, or do you have to learn things as you go, adapt to people's requests, and bring on some new skills?
It's the combination of A and B. I think we all have that friend who doesn't hate much. You know? Like, there’ll be a general consensus around a movie where everyone's like, "Oh, this movie sucks" and there’ll be that one person who can find that redeeming quality in it. That's me with music, mostly. You would assume that for somebody who's so entrenched in music or someone who's gone to school for music that there would be this level of elitism, but I listen to basically all styles of music, and I find an appreciation for them, whether it's classical, metal, jazz, rock, anything really out there. I'm a big fan of country music, too.
When a wrestler comes to me and they ask me for something specific, it's an opportunity for me to sit down and go, "Okay, cool, let's really dive into this style."
Reggaeton I have probably have the least familiarity with, but when Mercedes Martinez was showing me, "This is what I was using before. This is what I really like," you try to find the things that really accentuate that style. Like, “OK, cool. It's very rhythmically-based. There's a lot of groove to it. So we'll do that.”
So even if it's a style I haven't come in contact with, there's really not a style that's outside of my wheelhouse. Does that mean I've written in every style? Not necessarily, but I have written it a lot. If you give me something, I can make it happen. If you give me references, if you give me what your character is supposed to be, we're going to come up with something that people love and something that fits what you're looking for. I love all styles of music. Even if I haven't done it, I can do it.
If there are any wrestlers out there who are listening, John can do it all! Whatever style you're looking for, he can make it happen.
When you talk about being a professional, whether it's a videographer, a composer, or whatever the case is, you have to figure out things in order to survive. How can you maximize all of the things that you do?
Over time, I wanted to be an instrumental metal guitarist. That's very much my parents' style. If I pick up a guitar, that's kind of the stuff that I play, generally, but that isn't the only thing that you should be able to do if you're looking to create a career as a musician.
You need to branch into other styles. You need to look into other sources of income. You need to look into all of these different avenues that you might not have otherwise. Once you start branching off from one place, the seed is where the tree comes from.
Very well said, and very modest.
What kind of variety do you encounter in terms of your clients? When wrestlers approach you, is it largely those who need their very first entrance theme song, they’ve worked with other composers before, or they want to totally reinvent themselves?
Yeah, it's Column A, Column B, Column C. With entrance themes, when you have a wrestler who's starting to really brand themselves and take their character seriously, an entrance theme can be one of those things that helps bring it to life, but it could be the start of their career, right?
I have worked with talent where they're just like, "Hey, I just got out of wrestling school. I want to start hitting the road. I want to start putting down my promos and things like that, so I need something, just bear basics. Here's what I've always thought for my character." I think what's interesting about those is you get a completely fresh perspective.
Also, wrestlers change over time. They go to different territories. They decide, "OK, this doesn't really suit what I want to do. I want to go in a different direction with my character." If they go to a different promotion, all of a sudden it's like, "Hey, you're now not this character. You're now trying to fit within this stable, this group of people or whatnot." You end up having reasons where they'll switch.
A lot of the talent that I've worked with recently has been talent that's been around, gratefully, for whether it's 10 plus years or even 7 plus years, but a significant amount of time, they’ve maybe been on TV or in the public eye for quite some time. So with those wrestlers, a lot of the times they have things they're still using, that sometimes are either a) copyright issues or b) they want to expand on that character.
There are some wrestlers that have come from the big promotion, from the WWE, where that's kind of one of those things — and no digs on anyone that writes for WWE — but you're talking about a publicly-traded company, and they're trying to churn things out fairly quickly, so it's like, "OK, cool. Bullet point. Here's what this is. Go" and then you have to stick with that theme for a little bit of time. So, sometimes wrestlers coming from there that I work with, going out to AEW or huffin' it on the indies, they'll say, "This is what I used here. I like that vibe. Let's stick with it" or "You know what? I want to rebrand myself."
There's a wrestler who just debuted on AEW named Tony Nese. He was the ex-Cruiserweight Champion in WWE. He won the title at WrestleMania. His whole thing is that he's both a fast, high flier wrestler and a strong wrestler. His tagline is, "Move like a cruiserweight, hit like a heavyweight." So with him, when you hear his theme that he was using in WWE, it's very fast. It's uplifting. It's one of these things where you would hear it and you'd want to cheer. It sounds almost like a superhero theme in a way.
When he came off and we started working together, he wanted something that was a little bit more in-your-face, a little bit more driving. So it was a little bit slower, a little bit more methodical, and instead of it being, "OK, cool, here's this guy who can fly around," it focused more on his nickname, which is "The Premier Athlete." He goes in the ring, he poses. He does all these really cool, strong moves that look flashy, and he puts them away. So it was a really good opportunity for him to say, "You know what? Here's what I did like from that, but let's go ahead and make it more in this style. I think that's going to help me speak more in the ring." So it's a combination.
Some people start bare basics. Masha Slamovich, she was actually the 4th theme that I ever wrote, a couple of years ago. We've grown to be friends over the course of time, and she's huffed it from everywhere, from Japan, back to the U.S., here in New Jersey. She recently got signed to IMPACT Wrestling and AXS TV, and the theme that we did originally for her, at first was kind of like a Sevendust-y, Russian Tchaikovsky-inspired theme where it was like, OK, she's really trying to push this narrative, so we had strings, we had all this stuff, and she goes, "Yeah, when I come back to the states, I don't want that." I'm like, "OK. Cool. So what do you want?" She's basically just like, "I drive people on their heads and I'm out to kill people." I'm like, "Alright. So here's what we’ve got to do." A complete 180 from that. Now, when you see her on IMPACT and you hear "The Art of Violence," which is the new theme, and you listen to "Russian Dynamite," which was the original, you kind of see the progression from, here was somebody who was trying to find themselves, and here's the person that knows who they are now. So, it's pretty cool. It's a big progression.
Do you ever get somebody who comes in and is like, "I'm not really sure where I'm going next" and you have to really dig deep to figure out what they want to be, what they're aiming for?
It's less so that they don't know who they are and where they're going. It's more so that they don't have — and I mean no disrespect when I say this — they don't have a defined character that reaches outside of "I'm a wrestler." To use some timely or evergreen examples, when we think of someone like The Undertaker, he was around for 40 years or so. His whole gimmick, at least until 2000-something, what that he was The Deadman. That was his whole thing. He was supposed to be a dead guy. OK, cool. That's a very defined character. You're not going to write an ice cream song for him, right? You're not going to write an indie-style song. You're probably going to write a funeral dirge, which is what lasted over 40 years.
But then you have someone like, for example, Bryan Danielson, who's in AEW. His themes have always been great, and they've always nailed them. They basically took "Flight of the Valkyries" and made rock versions of them and modernized versions.
Daniel Bryan's story was always: he's the best wrestler. OK, well, what do you do with that? What do you highlight? There's got to be a little nugget somewhere else in the character that you can pull from. A while back, I had actually spoken to Jim Johnston. For those who are familiar, Jim Johnston was the composer for 32 years for WWE. I messaged him one day on LinkedIn. I was like, "This guy's not going to answer. I'm just some schmuck," and he ended up responding. We had a little bit of a back and forth, which was cool, and I was like, "Listen, you're talking about how it's easy to write themes for The Undertaker, but what if you have a wrestler who's just a wrestler, or just a fighter, or something like that?" and he goes, "There will always be something that you can connect to, even if it's something that everybody else has. There's something that does make them a little bit unique, so you have to continue to dive to that."
So, for example, if someone's like, "OK, I'm an MMA fighter." OK, great. Well, what else are we doing with that? You could just stop there and be like, "Alright, cool, we're gonna make a rock track. That's great," but I think there's depth in saying, "OK, cool. So when you are an enemy fighter, are you more submission-based? Are you more strike-based? Do you feel that you have a chip on your shoulder? Is this something where you had maybe lost a lot of fights and you all of a sudden came around the other side, you trained, and now you're out to prove something?" There's little things that you can extrapolate from someone. Let's get those extra nuggets and pull those out because that's going to make not just the difference in the music that I write, but it's also going to help you even define more of what you're going for.
I will say that a lot of wrestlers tend to have a pretty strong vision of what they're looking for. In some promotions, they have a little bit more freedom than others, but a lot of promotions now are giving wrestlers that freedom to be who they want to be and, in turn, to have the music that they want to have.
In terms of your personal background, how did you find yourself in this world? Tell us a little bit about your journey and how this became a career path.
It's one of those things, like, you never know what's going to happen. You never know where life will take you. I've been a believer in both sides of that. One door shuts, another one opens, and kind of conversely, what's the other side of that coin? You could be one step away or one move away from the next phase of your life.
I've been a professional musician on and off now for about 10-12 years or so, and I was running a wrestling podcast. (You actually got me in contact with Patricia Rogers. She's so cool. Everything that she and her team do for Those Wrestling Girls is so dope. Check them out! Highlighting female wrestling!)
So, some buddies and I had a podcast called The Armchair Bookers, and we were looking for different ways to maximize our visibility. We were like, "OK, cool. What skillsets do we have?" Well, one guy was good at interviewing. For me, one of my buddies went, "Well, you write music. Have you ever thought about writing music for wrestlers?"
When I was in college, the big thing I wanted to do was start writing music for commercials, films, and video games, and one thing that you find, especially in video games and films, it's more at the mercy of the project than it is at your own writing speed. A film could get put into backlog and a game could get put into development hell.
Wrestlers are some of the nicest people in the world. Everyone's just trying to work together, generally. Everyone's trying to put themselves over, put each other over, so it's cool. Why do I bring that up? Because a couple of the interviews that we had done with The Armchair Bookers podcast, we had become friends with a couple of different wrestlers that were local or on the way up. A gentleman named Ricky Gibson, who now works for UWN under The Midnight Heat, was actually the first person that we interviewed and the first person I ended up doing a theme for. I was like, "Hey, I know how to write music, I know how to release it, but I have no idea how to even get into writing themes for people. There's no roadmap or anything for that." He goes, "Oh yeah, you could go ahead and make one for us."
I don't think they were really expecting much because we were coming from the podcast perspective, and they heard the intro that I had written and it was kind of like a mid-2000s, Three Days Grace kind of thing. It was cool, but you wouldn't think much of it. It's like ten seconds at the beginning of a podcast. Then, I wrote this theme for them, which was this '80s inspired theme, and they were like, "Oh my God, this is really cool." So we started talking again. I was like, "How do you do this?" and he was like, "Well, basically, what you're doing now. Just start reaching out to people, talking to them." I was like, "Is that really it? I know there's copyright and things like that." They were like, "Dude, the wrestling industry is still so up in the air and so independent that there's so many floating ideas, so many floating laws."
So I kept reaching out to different people we had interviewed. Ricky Gibson and Eddie Pearl, to this day, I continue to be friends with. They've referred so many people to me over the course of time, and I'm super grateful for that. Masha Slamovich, same thing. Over the course of time, it just became that people started to learn my name. There were referrals.
I still do a lot of client outreach. For anyone running a small business or a big business, it doesn't matter how big or small you are. Always continue to network, always continue to communicate. Not everything is referrals, and you've still got to put in a lot of legwork, even if it's 30-40% of your business.
Two years later, I'm sitting almost at over 100 themes, and I have probably about 20 in backstock now that I'm working with. So, it's a combination of referrals and reaching out. There were a lot of people that I never thought I'd even get to work with or that would even know my name. It's just crazy to see now.
It took the passion of composing, which is my big love, of being able to write and put music together, and now finding that outlet for something that I enjoy from an entertainment side, which is pro wrestling.
It's a great story for anyone entering a new career, a new industry, to just talk to people. There's no harm in asking. 99% of the people that you'll meet will want to be helpful.
How does it feel to turn on your TV and see/hear your theme played? What’s that experience like?
It's been very humbling. I've always considered myself more of a composer than even a guitarist or a producer. I love the creation of music. I love being able to just take a blank landscape and all of a sudden, “Wow, now it speaks to somebody.” Right? Being able to hear it live, it's a very different experience.
When you hear that other people are resonating with your music, it's really humbling because it’s like, “Hey, I'm just in my studio, writing music for wrestlers.” It’s really cool that I get to work with them, but all of a sudden when you hear that person go live and you see that the music that you wrote is the first thing that resonates with the audience… Like they say in wrestling, it doesn't matter if they're cheering, if they're telling you go away, if they're booing you. If they're quiet and they're dead, then that's when you know that you're not being effective.
There have been a couple of different instances where a wrestler has come to the ring and the crowd gets up, they get really happy, sad, whatever is the case, really animated and the first thing they hear is, for example, The Premier Athlete's theme (Tony Nese), or Dani Jordan's theme when they were using it for AEW, or Darren Young's in New Japan. It's just really cool to see that the music takes on a life of its own because the wrestler is so in tune with what they're doing and in tune with that.
My wife and I run a music school here in Midland Park called The Piano Workshop at Bergen County. I always tell my students, "We all start wanting to be a professional musician." Or let me even scale that back. We all want to pick up an instrument because we see our favorite musician on stage, whether that's a Taylor Swift, a Machine Gun Kelly. For me, when I was younger, that was Blink-182. Even if it's Britney Spears.
For me, being able to come back around all these years later and be like, OK, this is where we’ve come from. All this hard work, all the blood, sweat and tears, so to speak, that you put in, you're all of a sudden able to see the fruits of your labor come to fruition in that way. So it's humbling to be like, OK, cool, we actually took something that we had a passion for and now here we are with it. I was 13, let's say, when I realistically started really getting into music. I'm 33 as of this interview, and I think that humbles 13-year-old me. I'm like, that's crazy. I was sitting in my bedroom in Key West, literally jamming on the guitar — it had an MxPx sticker and a Yamaha sticker and it was like 20 bucks, given to me by my brother — and then all of a sudden, we're here. It's absolutely crazy.
Have you found that social media and Instagram, in particular, have made it easier to connect with wrestlers, potential clients, and to network?
The majority of my business is done through social media.
I think we see a lot of negativity that happens on social media. Gratefully — and knock on wood — I've always had generally positive experiences. You'll get the people every now and again who have their opinions. I don't mind opinions. I mind if you're being a jerk about it, you know? But very rarely have I run into somebody who has genuinely been like, "I'm just a bad day every day.”
I think wrestlers use social media so much to connect with people. It's also the way that their name gets around so much. If someone does a cool move, has a cool match, they end up being able to connect and get it shared.
I feel like a really big way for me to connect with people is through DMs, through Instagram. Probably Instagram, Twitter and Facebook have been the biggest three. I have my YouTube, which I'm always updating with new music, and I have a playlist that I put up of the themes that I've worked on. I think that if if social media wasn't around, it would be much more difficult for me to grow my business, both from a referral standpoint and a communication side.
I always try to be as personal as I can with the wrestlers that I reach out to, and vice versa. I've seen people online that are like, "Oh, I just sent an email blast to 10,000 people and 10 people responded. What's going on?" My thing is I'd rather get 1/64th of the work but know that the person that I'm working with and I really do connect. I try to find out about as much of the industry as possible. I try to find out as much about a wrestler that I want to reach out to as possible. That way, when I do send a message or I do reach out on Twitter, it's not just "Hey, I write music, hire me." It's more like, "Hey, here's what I know about you. Here's what I really appreciate about what you do. I want to offer my services." It's not a tongue-in-cheek, "Hey, you're great. By the way, I do this. Maybe we could work together? Nah, I'm just kidding. But maybe...? I don't know!" None of that stuff because that's just ballocks. It doesn't get you anywhere. It just makes you look like a hack. It's legitimately, "Here's what I like about what you do. Here are my services. I'd love to work with you. Let's see if we can make something happen," and usually people resonate with that. Social media is definitely helpful. There's a tact to how you do it, but it's just how you'd speak to people in general, you know? People really resonate with that.
Excellent advice for any industry. You really want to be personable. Like you mentioned, it's easier now to mass email or mess message people, but if you write that extra little personal something that shows, "Oh, I actually took the time to look and see what you're about and what you've done,” that really goes a long way.
I think every business person, whether they're in a big company or a small company, can look at it the same way. Know who you're reaching out to. There are definitely tools out there where it's just like, "Hi, (insert tag here)," and it adds the person's name, and you pray to God that they didn't put in their last name and their first name in the same thing because it's totally not personable to say "Hi, John Kiernan." Nobody says that. They just use the person’s first name.
Sometimes wrestlers will have different accounts — some for personal, some for their stage stuff. So I always try to be respectful and go to their stage stuff. When I work with wrestlers, there are some that I refer to by their kayfabe names. There are some that I refer to them by their real names. It's always for me preference. There's one person, Lilith Grimm, who I've worked with. We did a theme that was very tribal, very much like a Heilung-style, and we were able to get the hurdy-gurdy player from the band Eluveite to play on it, too. It was really wild, really cool. I still call her "Lilith" to this day because that's what she prefers. Her real name is out there, she has a profile and all that, but I still refer to her as "Lilith" because that's what she wants. Other wrestlers don't care, but you always want to be respectful of that. So I think the more you can learn about somebody, the more you really try to connect with somebody, the more social media can work for you to help you grow.
I'd say, it's still rare to find someone who has both the creativity of an artist as well as a business mind, someone who can figure out how those two worlds work. You have the mind of a business owner and someone who knows how to grow their brand. Looking at your Instagram page, it's not just a whole bunch of random stuff. There's a thought process to what's being posted and how it looks.
Even if you are someone who enjoys, say, playing the guitar for fun, there are definitely some things that business do that you can look at as a model. Look at what businesses are doing. It doesn't hurt. It can only increase your exposure. There's always something to learn if you're just willing to listen and apply.
Absolutely. I've been grateful over my life, whether it's been in or out of music, to work under people who were very strong leaders. Whether that was my time at previous places like Apple, or even just talking to people like Winifred Phillips who is a video game composer, and really just listening to what they do and how they communicate and really the respect that they put down.
It's really interesting. I think each wrestler is their own individual business, and you end up seeing that there are wrestlers who really take that brand seriously, there are others that kind of sit in the middle, and there are others that are like, "OK, cool, what work will come to me, will come." Like, they don't have much on social media, their email is difficult to communicate with. Just with a little bit of tailoring and a little bit of tooling, you can end up being able to connect with way more people.
One thing I try to do pretty frequently is, every day I'll post a story of one of the pieces of music that I've written for a wrestler. I'll tag the wrestler and it gives them traction, it gives me traction. It also gives people the ability to go right to listening to it, to subscribe, to follow, things like that. At least once a week, I usually get one referral from doing things like that because, again, wrestlers are following me, I'm following wrestlers. The industry is kind of like that ouroboros of learning about what's out there, right? So, from things like that, you may get a connection here and there. It's not about seeing someone like a Kardashian — and I'm not bashing them either. It's not like seeing a Kardashian who has 230 million followers and go, "That's my goal." The point is, you need to know your market. You need to know what you're trying to accomplish, and even getting your stuff sometimes in front of 10 people, if it's the right 10 people, then that's fine. You know you're able to grow.
I think what's been a really big thing for me is there are some wrestlers that I haven't heard of until they reach out, or I reach out. There are some wrestlers that all of a sudden reach out, and I look at my DMs and I'm like, "Why are you reaching out to me? I'm nothing! What are you doing?" And it's cool. It's all through the same channels.
I also think that there's going to be competition no matter what. Some people are like, "Don't give away your secrets." Listen, in any industry, there's going to be competition. If someone is successful in an industry, then they're going to duplicate and replicate. So the competition's going to exist, whether you want it to or not. So it's better to create an industry, than it is to just live on an island on your own. You know what I mean?
Right. There might be someone else who does what you do, but it's the relationship that you've built, which is also, of course, tied to your quality of work.
There's a gentleman who works for AEW, who's their main go-to composer. He is “The Guy.” His name's Mikey Rukus. When AEW started, he's the guy who had written all the music. He's the go-to. He's the composer for the company. When I was doing my podcast, I got the opportunity to interview him, and it was cool because we interviewed so many different wrestlers, but I had gotten the opportunity to sit down with somebody in wrestling that was also a musician. So instead of just asking about, "What matches are you looking forward to?" it's was like, "OK, cool, what's your rig? You're using a seven-string. That's awesome. What did you think of this and this?" It was really cool.
One of the first times I ever saw my music on a large promotion was in AEW. They were starting up this show called Dark, which is where they bring in some other talent. (It's a YouTube-exclusive show.) They were able to ask other people, "Hey, do you have music that you can submit for us to use?" I don't know how public they made that. There wasn't a website, but I remember I was sitting working one day, and Mikey Rukus was just like, "Listen, do you have any music you can send it to me? Anything just randomly that we might be able to use?" and I go, "Yeah, when do you need it?" and he's like, "Five minutes from now." I'm like, "Legitimately five?" He's like, "Yeah. I can send you the releases." So I'm like, "I'll send it to you in three! I just happen to be at my computer now." He didn't have to do that. All of a sudden it became the theme that Dani Jordan used for a couple of months while they were using music for the enhancement talent. That was a song I wrote back in 2011 that I had released on a record and things like that. So it was cool.
I think Mikey's always been gracious with me in terms of both being a friend and giving advice in the industry. Even Tony Nese, he came to me to write a theme. I guess there might have been somebody else who was working on something for him and maybe the guy didn't answer his messages, something like that, and so Tony Nese came to me. We worked on something. He ended up loving it, which I'm always proud of. He didn't tell me he was going to AEW. I don't think he knew he was going to AEW. (When I say "going to AEW," wrestlers often will work in different promotions. AEW is one of those promotions where once you're assigned to them, it's a little bit more exclusive, like you're usually going to work exclusively for their programing.)
So we finished up the theme. He did a couple of different shows, one actually for UWN, and then all of a sudden he goes "Hey, I'm going to AEW to work on the program Dark." (One thing about Dark is that they don't use music for the enhancement talent now. It's just quicker for them to get people in the ring. "Enhancement talent" refers to people who aren't, let's say, signed to the company and are just there to make the onboard talent shine.) So I go, "Yeah, no problem, I'll go ahead and I'll obviously give you the music, give you the release. I'll speak to my guy, Mikey Rukus over there. He knows me and he knows how I work." I send over the music to Mikey Rukus, and he goes, "Yeah, he's going to be on Dark. I don't know what they're going to do with him." What that means to me is they're not going to use this music for Dark, obviously. I go, "OK, cool makes sense." I kind of knew that going into it. All of a sudden, I'm watching Dynamite, which is their TNT show, and Tony Nese is sitting in the crowd. No music, but he's sitting in the crowd. I'm like, "That's weird for a Dark person" and he goes, "Yeah, they told me, like, 10 minutes before time, just go sit in the crowd." I go, "OK." So I reached out to Mikey again. I go, "So... What's going on?" He goes, "Oh yeah, they're going to allow him to make an entrance on Dark." I'm like, "OK, cool. Can you tell me anything?" "No." "OK. NDA." They start using his music there and he goes, "It's really up to Tony Khan if they want him to continue using music.” He's like, "I like it. It's cool" and then all of a sudden fast forward, and now he's using it on Dynamite. Tony Nese is signed to AEW officially now. Mazel tov and congratulations to him. He deserves it so, so much.
It's one of those things. You don't know where connections and how connections are going to go. I'm always grateful to have someone that dedicates that time, even to just speak on a friend basis, and continues that connection that way. It was something that I was like, "Oh, here's a piece of music that's going to be written for Tony Nese. Tony Nese is great. He's going to go around and do all this" and then all of a sudden, he's on AEW. and I'm like, "That's nuts!" and Mikey is cool with using the music. So, there we go.
You never know which way things were going to go, who knows who, and who's going to be connected with someone at some point.
have you actually gotten to go to wrestling events and physically be present while your music is playing?
Something always comes up when you have a child and you have a job. So, unfortunately, not yet. There might be a few things coming up that I will be going to, and especially now in Jersey, there are so many different wrestling events that happen, whether it's South Jersey, or up here in Bergen County, or down by the Shore. There's so much wrestling going on that I have to be able to get there one way or another. So hopefully soon I'll be able to see it in person. The most that I've seen it is on TV. My son is two-and-a-half. I don't have him watch wrestling, obviously, right now. When he gets older, cool. But, you know, when all of a sudden I was like, "Oh, Tony Nese is going to be on Dynamite,” I'm like, 'Watch the TV! This is crazy!'" So he got to see that. But I haven’t seen it in person yet.
Let’s somehow schedule all your clients and your life so you have a week off so it lines up exactly.
Exactly. It's one of these things where it's like, if you're the one that puts the kid to sleep, then you have to hope the kid gets to sleep by the time that the show starts. So you're like, "Alright, cool. Please go to sleep. Please. Please go to sleep a little bit earlier today."
"I'll write some sleeping music for you."
Exactly! Some dreaming entrance music.
Hey, there's a lot of kids that need to go to sleep. The next big thing. We'll get you on Shark Tank somehow.
Oh, man. In front of Kevin O'Leary? Absolutely! I'd be like, "Yeah, I work with wrestlers right now, but have you ever worked with babies?" and they're like, "Please make this quick. I don't know where this is going."
It might be the most-watched episode yet.
“Babies? I'm intrigued! Yes!”
I will say, we're joking about the baby music now, but even through wrestling, I've been grateful to get other work, too. Some light film work here and there for a short horror movie. I've done different podcast introductions, too.
One thing that I'm grateful for is that wrestling themes, I'm probably writing three or four entrances a week, on a good week. One or two, if I have a little bit more time. But in general, it's still so many different styles that if a wrestler says, "Hey, I need something in this style," I could send them a piece of music that I've written in style a, b or c. Even a podcast. There was a podcast I recently did where it was all about women in business, and they were like, "Do you have something that's a little bit more technology-focused but has a little bit more of an upbeat nature?" I was like, "Yeah, yeah, definitely" and I sent them one of the tracks that I'd done, and I got to work on a podcast intro there. Someone was looking for a synth-wave track for a gaming channel. I was able to do something there.
The wrestling themes, I'm writing them at such a ferocious pace in so many different styles that it's giving me a reel of content. It sounds wacky to say that in two years it's been over 100 themes in so many styles, but that's kind of the life as a professional musician. I've been able to say, "Oh, I'd love to be part of this project. Here is a collection of music that I've written so you know that I can write in a variety of styles." That's the other part I've been really, really grateful for.
Do you have anything coming up that we should know about? Any big projects that you're excited about? I'm sure there are some things you can't totally reveal, but anything in the works that you can tease us about and we can follow up with you later?
There's always so much music. I won't say I do these crazy break-the-budget videos, but I'll always do audio-visual art for my music. If a music video can be done, cool. I have an artist that I work with who's phenomenal, for the majority of themes that I put out. His name's Hiban Huerta. He's out in California. He works with NWA. He does a lot of great stuff.
Marina Shafir is a wrestler who just wrestled on AEW Dark. I just finished up a theme for her which is very different than what you would assume, for those who know Marina Shafir. She has an MMA fighter background. It's not rock, it's not metal. It’s classical, which is crazy. When she told me why, I was like, "This totally works. Let's do it. I'm here for it. We'll write something in a Romantic-style."
I'm back-stocked on about 20 themes right now to release, and I'm back-stocked on probably about 20 themes that I have to start. So, there's always something coming.
There is a wrestler named Jase Osei who I worked with recently, and hopefully in the next couple of weeks I'm going to be releasing his track which features Josiah Williams on it. Josiah Williams was the backstage vocalist for WWE NXT. He’s a great guy and phenomenal rapper, so that one should be coming out soon.
I will say, there's lots of stuff, surprisingly, that's planned for 2022. Just follow me on all the things — Facebook, Instagram, Spotify, YouTube. Sometimes I end up releasing things without a release plan — and that's the worst thing after we just talked for 20 minutes about independent business shit, but that's where we are sometimes! But there will always be something cool in the pipeline, is what I'll say.
What's the best way for people to reach out to you? Do you have one particular platform that you seem to check more?
I think Instagram and Facebook have probably been the two that are the easiest to check and communicate. Instagram and Facebook follow the same handle, @JohnKiernanMusic. I'm on Twitter also, but it is the black sheep. It's @JKiernanGuitar because of character limits. JohnKiernanMusic@gmail.com is also where I am fairly communicative.
So Instagram first, I would say. Email second. Facebook third or whatever. I check all of them fairly consistently. JohnKiernanMusic.com is updated fairly frequently, too.
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WRESTLING ENTRANCE THEME SONGS BY JOHN KIERNAN:
JOHN KIERNAN: This is Masha Slamovich. She's fantastic. The first video is how she looked when we did her first theme, and the second is how she looks now. She’s really elevated her brand. Originally, she was just a person that had a Russian background. Then over time, she started working in Japan. Japan is more of a rough style, versus WWE, they're very careful. She came to me basically being like, "I want to kick people's heads in." I'm like, "OK." (Masha Slamovich debuted with her new theme on IMPACT on AXS TV last night, January 6th!)
This first theme we did, I called it "Variations on Marche Slave" because it is actually a Tchaikovsky piece. Back then she was like, "I really want to dive into the Russian thing,” but then when she came back over to the States, she was like, “I want people to know that I'm violent.” So, it became a different thing. If you're familiar with Kill Bill, we inserted what we call the "Masha Death Whistle." That's the first thing that you hear. Like when think of Stone Cold, you think of the glass breaking. That first thing that you hear. So the new theme is way more in your face.
This one is very “Heilung." Heilung is a band, and they're very world-based. You see them and they have the tribal headdresses, they have the deer heads with the antlers. This is the one that has the hurdy-gurdy player. Already, you see the person has that presence about them. She's tatted up, she's got the purple hair, she's got the mask. I don't know how she got the mask. It's so cool. It's like a skeleton mask that when she moves her mouth, it moves. I'm like, "That's fucking wild." They gave her death metal entrance theme music, and she was like, "That's not what it is. My gimmick is not that. My gimmick is like a bone collector demon. It should be something that feels like I'm being summoned from somewhere" and I'm like, "I agree."
This one is for a Jersey-based team called The StepDads. They were using this total '80s, '90s cheese ball stuff, like "Pour Some Sugar on Me", that kind of thing, but they did want to be tongue in cheek. They were sending me the Family Matters theme and things like that. They were like, "We want that." Like, total sitcom. The wink and the nod. You'll hear when that comes in. This one, I had to bring in a saxophonist.
This gentleman here is named Effy. He's a guy who's very big on the independents. He's very much a wrestler of the LGBTQ community. His thing is also about kind of bucking the corporate media. His theme, usually, is "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" by Elton John, but when he works with promotions that have TV, you obviously can't do that unless you get the rights. So the company I work for, UWN, was like, "We need something that's kind of like that." Effy himself said, "The theme needs to be gay. It needs to be super gay. And if it's not super gay, I'm going to cry. Big gay tears." His words, not mine, but you know, you ask and we deliver.
This was kind of my first time going into dubstep. I don't really know much about the style, but we did it. This was for Rowdy Roddy Piper's daughter. Her name's Teal Piper. Their gimmick is called House of Heathens, which they kind of say is like The Purge. They don't do the whole purge thing, but they kind of see themselves as that. So the point with this was making it almost post-apocalyptic in a way.
The voice that you hear at the beginning is hers, and the voice that you hear throughout is mine through a vocoder that I don't know how to use. I say that because I knew that I wanted something very robotic and I was just like, "I don't know how to do this." I was messing around with a vocoder, and if you change your voice up even like a semitone, it does this jump so it sounds like this kind of apocalyptic radio. Teal Piper sent me her vocals, which are her saying, “House of Heathens.” I said, “Have you ever seen Resident Evil? She goes, “Yeah.” I go, “Do you know the Red Queen? She goes, “Yeah, the little girl.” I go, “You know when she says, ‘You're all going to die down here’ and it's just this complete robotic monotone? Give me that.”
This is for Marina Shafir. It starts kind of big and grandiose, and then it shrinks down to an Edith Piaf kind of thing. I had no idea what she wanted at first. She kept giving me that period piece sound and I'm like, “Are you sure?” and she's like, “Yeah, I'm totally sure.” So I kept giving her these pieces that has a little bit more drive. I was like, “How deep do you want me to go?” Eventually it got to a point where it's what you hear here.
This one here is very much a straight-ahead rock track. This one I wrote with my buddies in It Lives, It Breathes. They are a band that wrote a couple of different themes. They had such success with one theme they did, that they got other wrestlers asking them for stuff. The singer of It Lives, It Breathes, Kevin, was like, “We want to bring you in on this one.” I ended up writing all the guitars and basically everything that is a string. This theme was the first one of mine that got onto TV.
This is for a wrestler that hasn't debuted yet. Her name is Airica. She's like 16. They're out in the Midwest. Her thing is like being an anime character basically come to life. So if you're familiar with J-Rock and K-Pop, this is very much in that style. I actually brought in a vocalist who I found on Instagram from Malaysia to sing this one. It’s very much like My Hero Academia.
This one is for a wrestling group (referred to as a “stable”) called The Division. This one is probably one of my favorites for a few reasons. Number one, the people in the group (there's like six of them) are all the nicest guys and girls in the world.
“An Angel’s Song” and “YAKATA” are both basically revolving around the same theme. As one of my buddies put it, “I like how you're taking liberties with wrestlers.” What he meant by that was, this is kind of a stable theme. If you listen to each of these, you're going to hear that the thematic material is the same.
“We Are Change” is kind of like the parent theme from which all the others exist. Rico de la Vega is very proud of his Puerto Rican heritage. His theme’s a little more reggaeton. Notorious Mimi, she wears angel wings to the ring. I wanted to have something with the group that even if you leave, you can have a theme that stands on its own, but you could also have something that ties you back into the family.
This theme was released on December 30th, 2020. Mercedes Martinez debuted on AEW on December 29th. She is now signed with the company.