Interview with Terri DiMatteo (Open Door Therapy)

 By Sonia Schnee | Posted Friday, January 6, 2023

Terri DiMatteo is a NJ Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC) who specializes in helping couples and individuals reduce conflict, tension, or disconnect in their relationships, via virtual online therapy sessions.

If you’ve ever been curious about what a Licensed Professional Counselor does, how counseling can help you, and you want to learn some simple but effective techniques to bring greater peace, intimacy, and harmony to your life, check out my interview with Terri by watching the video above or reading the transcript below.

To learn more about Terri's services, visit her website, opendoortherapy.net, or listen to her podcast at lovebonds.net.

This interview has been edited for time and clarity.

Terri, thank you so much for taking some time out of your busy Thursday to speak with me. Why don't you introduce yourself — what's your name, where are you based, and what do you do?

TERRI DIMATTEO: Thank you. It's so nice to be here with you. My name is Terri DiMatteo. I'm a New Jersey Licensed Professional Counselor in private practice. Currently, my practice (Open Door Therapy) is based in Princeton, but services are delivered online to New Jersey residents. As long as they reside in New Jersey, I can provide care.

The focus of my practice is couples care, essentially. I call myself a relationship counselor. So, anyone who has a relationship matter that needs help, I can help. Mostly, people come to me in two's (couples). Specifically, I focus on the romantic relationship, and a specialty that’s tucked within that is helping couples in the aftermath of infidelity. That's my area of expertise, actually. Most people have experienced it in some fashion in their families, or they know someone, or it was done to them, or they engage. It's quite common. Very misunderstood. And then, of course, we hear about it in the news with celebrities or politicians, that kind of thing.

It’s great that you provide this service and expertise to be able to guide people through, to see “the light at the end of the tunnel”… or wherever it may lead!

Yeah, it's a difficult and slow process.

So, the name of your business is Open Door Therapy. What would you say is unique about the way that you help couples in their relationship?

I'm really happy to talk about this because typically marriage counselors, relationship counselors working with couples in the romantic relationship, there seems to be this focus on communicating. We hear this, right? In fact, I get calls. When a prospective client calls, I say, "Tell me a little bit about what is the matter that prompted you to receive care? What's prompting your call?" and they often say, "We're having communication issues." And I understand that because it's centering around "it's hard to talk to each other," but really it's much more about connection. It's sort of expressed through communication, but deeper than that it's really about connecting. It's really a connection, mostly feeling loved or feeling unloved, if you really want to whittle it down to the basics, expressed through communication.

So it seems other therapists are... Historically, marriage counseling has been about improving communication and learning how to get along better. Simply getting along. I reject both of those notions. That's not the main idea. The romantic relationship, like the term implies, it's an intimate one. It's really about emotional and sexual intimacy. That's the primary function of the relationship. It's really about closeness, being vulnerable, being emotionally close, talking together, feeling loved. And the other one is quite unique, is the sexual intimacy. That sets it apart from any other kind of relationship, the physical component. And those two things work synergistically to form what we call "a bond" or "an intimate bond." So my focus is squarely on that. We do go a little deeper. Yeah, there's some things with communication, but teaching people how to talk... I tease them a little bit when they come to session because they say "communication." I say, "Oh, it seems you have a vast vocabulary and no hearing problems!" You know? It's not exactly a communication problem. It's really a connection issue. "I'm not feeling loved. We're not connected. I don't feel safe with you. The trust has been compromised."

People overlook the fact that “communication” is more than just words.

Yes. Essentially, we hear people talk about "My partner is my best friend." Right? "My best friend." This kind of concept of "the best friend" notion. I understand what they mean when they say that. They mean "I feel close. I feel comfortable. I can relax. They support me." That's all great, but if a relationship leans too heavily on the emotional connection, you basically do have a best friend. It's not romantic. Or if it leans too much in the physical or sexual arena, but you don't feel close, that doesn't work either. It really is this combination of the two.

I express this concept in this way sometimes. The relationship -- this is going to sound a little strange on the face of it, so I'll need a moment to explain, because it sounds a little odd at first -- the relationship that the romantic relationship most parallels is the mother-infant bond. In this way, a mother, a new mother, let's say, the baby is born in the mother's body, even in utero can hear the mother's voice. There's new studies -- the baby has certain tastes, reactions to certain foods the mother eats. It's quite physical. There's a bodily component. Even a newborn can get the scent of the mother, the mother's voice, the movement of the mother -- very intuned bodily and emotionally. There's a bond. It's a very intimate bond that has a bodily and emotional component. The two strands.

And then you go over to the romantic relationship. It's similar, very, very parallel. Now the bodily component is sexual in nature, but it's also intimate -- the scent, the skin, the voice, the sound, the movement, you know, all of this -- and the emotional connection. We're really dependent on our partners like we were vulnerable and dependent on Mom when we were little. One of the researchers I admire, Dr. Sue Johnson, said throughout the whole lifecycle we need a "protective loved one." She didn't give the title "husband", "wife", "mother", "father", but essentially the protective loved one in infancy, in childhood, is the mother mostly, and in adulthood it's the partner. It's pretty serious. That level of depth and power, it's quite powerful. These bonds are serious. So the "best friend" model, which we hear commonly, "Oh, it's my best friend," doesn't quite capture it. It's a component of it, but I reject that the foundation of the relationship is a friendship. It really needs that romantic, flirty, sexy, tender, electric -- it needs that element. Just feeling close would not be enough.  

That's really fascinating.

 It is!

You mentioned that your clients usually come in twos, but sometimes you might get one person who's wondering or questioning.

 Yes.

What’s the age range of your clients? Do you ever work with teenagers?

That's a great question. I work with anybody who's an adult -- mostly adults, predominantly, 18+. Some of my clients are seniors -- elderly, up in years, who have been retired for a long time. It's quite a range. I would say the majority -- I can tell this from the analytics on certain platforms and things and from them being in front of me and filling out the intake -- it's about mid-30s to mid-50s is roughly the demographic. But I do see the whole gamut. And to your question, some people coming alone, they do have relationship concerns and sometimes the partner is refusing to come. So I kind of explain it as, you get the best results, optimal results, when the couple comes together. That's preferred because I need to see the back and forth, the interplay of the two, the dynamic. But you can get results if one person comes and they come to understand things in a new way, and if they make changes in the relationship, inevitably there'll be a change.  Because it's the two. It's the interplay of the two. We do have this popular framework, which is: when you're seeking a partner, you kind of go shopping, like you're shopping on Amazon or something. Right? "Oh, I got a good partner. He or she is this/that." There goes the list, you know? "I shopped well!" But it's really the interplay of the two and the back and forth. That's why one partner works out with one person, not another, and vice versa. "You can't say, "Oh, I picked up a good one, check!"  

Yes, it's a little more complicated than having an entire list of checkboxes.

Yeah! It's, how are you participating in the relationship? What is the effect? We were talking about New Jersey earlier. I make a little joke sometimes -- sometimes the New Jerseyans can say, "I just say it straight." You know? "I just blurt it out. They know where I stand. There it is." But it has an effect. So what is the effect? What is the impact? What does it do to your partner when you spit it out, straight up? Well, they maybe shut down or they recoil, or they get quiet. Well then, that's not working.

Would you say that's probably the most surprising thing for people who come to you, that they realize their own behavior is somehow contributing?

Oh, my gosh, yes! It's a tough one because the fingers are always pointing, right? "He did ____", "She did ___", "Look at what ___." They sometimes want me to be the arbiter or the judge, like an impartial third person to say who's right and who's wrong. No! It's more like, what is the EFFECT of that? What people want -- what everybody wants -- is their partner to respond to them lovingly, to be concerned, to turn toward them for connection. So I ask, "Can you can do a little self-assessment? Does what you do or say or how you do it or how you say it have the effect of your partner turning toward you for more connection? Or do they shut down, get angry, walk away, you lose them? What is the effect of that? What is the impact?" We want to get that rhythm, the back and forth, the synergy, working so that the couple is turning to one another with ease, for their intimacy needs, essentially.

I love that you added in the music analogy. I think people will definitely be able to relate to that.

I sometimes speak of this back and forth like it's a little dance. It's kind of like dancing together. You have to move together. You can't just say, "Oh, just go and fix him. Fix her. If he or she wouldn't do that, it would be good."

Is there an introduction that you give to new clients/patients about the role of a counselor and what to expect, so they know what they're signing up for?

I don't. I assume some therapists do. Here's how I usually start: "Oh, it's very nice to meet you. Let's jump in. What's going on? I read your intake form, so I do have an idea of what brought you here, but it's best to hear it from you. So what's happening?" and then right away you can see who wants to speak. You can immediately start tuning into the couple and the energy. A lot of my work, to be quite candid is... Let me back it up. A therapist has a unique profession in that their own reactions are paramount in helping the couple. In other words, if you go to a doctor or a lawyer, maybe you don't like them or they have bad bedside manner or something about them is not so personable, but they're quite skilled, they're quite adept at what they do. But in the therapy profession, the therapist's own emotional responses and compass is a tool, a critical tool, for maneuvering in the session. So it's very important to be aware of your own reactions as you're working with couples. I rely on that quite a bit. It works.

You originally had an office in Westfield, and now you're in Princeton. Are you still doing in-person for people who want to come in, or are you now completely virtual?

I started with an office in Westfield. I was in a midlife transition. After another career as a public school teacher, I became a therapist and I had an office in Westfield, which I loved -- I loved Westfield and I was quite content there -- and then COVID came and shook everything up. So for a while, the practice was actually closed for I forget how many months, something like 4 to 5 months. I was completely closed and I relocated in that period. And then -- still COVID numbers were quite high -- I opened with a Princeton-based but all-virtual counseling, and that's what I'm doing today. Some couples, some people, are kind of strong minded and they want to meet the counselor in person. I say, "Oh, well, I'm skilled at helping you, but there's no office to go to." They say, "Oh, can we do the second session in the office?" I say, "Well, there's not one. I don't have one."  

When you work with couples, how does that work on the technology side? Are they logging in separately, or do you say, “It's better if you're sitting next to each other”? Is there any refereeing?

So, they're mostly sitting in front of me on two chairs or a sofa, and it's very helpful to see them together. That's pretty important. But through the magic of technology, they actually don't have to be together if one is traveling or they are separated at the time, looking to reconcile, they can be in two locations, kind of like a Zoom where you see the little boxes and when one person speaks, they become larger on the screen. That is less effective, but you can still move forward on things. It is best to see them together on the screen. I suggest to them to "replicate the therapy office" so that it's someplace quiet with no interruption. Some people like it. They have children. The children go to sleep or are old enough to play in the next room. There are some advantages [to virtual counseling]. No New Jersey traffic, no parking hassles. It's convenient. There are some benefits in terms of practicality. The ease.

I imagine that opens up a whole world for both you and them in terms of not having to worry about how far they can travel.

Yes. It can be easy and convenient. Some express concern that they do want to be in person. I understand there is something that takes place when you're really sitting in front of a person in 3D or in reality, it is a bit different. That probably would be optimal, but you can work just as effectively if we can talk and see each other, and mainly that I can see the dynamic between them, how they respond and listen, and if there's touch or eye contact. I'm always reading the cues, and when one person's speaking, I've got my one eye on the other one to see the reaction. "Oh, when you said that, did you notice he got quieter, looked away, or kind of checked out?" On the screen, it's easy to do that, honestly. There are probably some clinical advantages as well.

It's so fascinating that this was part of a career transition. Being in education, did you find a link between being able to keep an eye on, say, multiple people in the room and how they're behaving, and then take those skills and apply that to what you do now?

 That's a good question. I hadn't thought about that before. The thing that has probably helped, with the teaching career, is there's pieces of the counseling time that are educational, conveying a concept. So, for example, earlier I was explaining the maternal bond as a parallel to the romantic bond. Having that ability to explain concepts, which is what teaching is about, that part probably helps. And to be clear that I'm not the judge or the arbiter or the school principal may come in. "You know what he did? You know what she did?"

How long is a session, usually? Is it about an hour? Do you encourage your clients/patients to come every week?

So typically the counseling session is the 45 or 50-minute hour. This is the therapist's hour, is a little less than an hour. I actually, I'm happy to say, I do provide a full hour. It seems important. 45 minutes versus an hour does seem meaningful. I don't take that lightly, that decision to make it an hour. Sometimes things do come up in the last 20 minutes of session, after we've been together. Sometimes they do need an hour. So it's one hour. I also offer an extended single session if someone wanted longer than an hour. I call it "the extended single session." If a couple has one niggling issue, like they say, "We mostly get along, we have a great relationship, we love each other, but we've got this one thing that we can't move past" or something from the past, or they've identified kind of a hot button item that they need work on. That's really what the extended single session is. They become one, essentially. It's kind of intense, but a one-time sit down with the therapist to kind of hammer it out. They can come again if they want. They're not banished. But it's kind of designed for, "Mostly we're good. Mostly the basics are there. But we do have this one thing that happened 15 years ago or comes up every time we fight. It's about this one thing and we need help." So it does get used periodically, the extended single session.

I imagine there are people that really benefit from that.

Yes. And to answer your question, it's generally weekly. Typically they come weekly if they're in crisis, which would be for the infidelity recovery. I often get calls shortly after discovery, that the secret of the affair was just discovered. Those couples sometimes can come two times per week because it's a crisis.

When a couple is in a session with you, at the end of their session do you give them, I don't know if "homework" is the right word, but are there tips or things that you remind them to try to do between now and your next session?

I do. I don't exactly give homework, but sometimes I'll give them a focus, something to pay attention to. Let's say a couple came to me once. At the top of the second session, I'll say, "So tell me, how has it been since we last met? How did it go?" Usually, I hear things have calmed down. They say, "Oh yeah, we're getting along better." It's not like everything's fixed in one session, but there generally it has calmed down a bit. The thing that was inflamed, they're feeling a little more hopeful. Here's some of the kinds of things I might say, and they might sound on the face of it small things, like, "Oh, that seems simple or dumb" or, you know, nothing earth-shattering, but they're quite profound, really, and there's research to back it up. There's been studies that support these ideas.

So here's a simple one. They're very, very simple. One thing is, if the couple starts using the couple term "we." A lot of times couples in distress will say "he", "she." You hear the language of independence, separateness. "You know what he did/she did?" "I..." But if you start using "we", "us," "our", it changes. "We're in it together." It's very important to switch to a "we." They're a little unit of two dancing together, right? So when they start using that language, that helps. It's a small thing, but you can even hear it actually as the sessions progress. When they start talking in session, you can hear them saying more "we" or "us" or "our." "When we did that, when we tried that, we worked it out." It's really quite telling.

The other thing, which also sounds small but it's profound, is to increase eye contact. Increased eye contact is bonding. It has a bonding effect. Sometimes, couples will say, "She doesn't look at me" or "he doesn't look at me. I walk in the room and they're on the phone and I can't even get their attention." It's very, very, very important that couples treat their spouse or partner as the most important person in the whole world. They come in the room, you look up, you put the phone down. Eye contact. It has a bonding effect. In fact, to take this a little further, there's been research that shows that extended eye contact -- they use the term "eye gazing" -- can have a profound effect on couples in distress, and they found that couples that eye gaze for -- they found this magic number -- 4 minutes, which is a long time, that's a lot, that's pretty intense to look at each other for 4 minutes and maintain eye contact and don't even talk -- no words, silently gaze into each other's eyes -- warm, loving feelings start to come up. They start to feel loving toward each other. It can help repair a troubled connection.

To go back to my point in the beginning, it's not with words, "communication", right? You communicate with your eyes, I mean, it is communication, but we always think of it with words. The non-words, the non-verbal is key. In fact, if you poke around YouTube, you can find some magazines or some outlets did this: they did a little on-the-street kind of thing. They had two people that didn't know each other and they had them -- strangers -- eye gaze for 4 minutes. They started to fall in love.

That's amazing.

It's powerful! I mean, when we really focus on one another, giving your partner your attention... Let me just veer off the road a little bit... It's all related, but basically what I said earlier, when the couple is bonded, intimately bonded through emotional and sexual intimacy, that is the best protection against infidelity. You have a romantic partner. You're getting your intimacy connection needs met within the primary relationship or marriage where it belongs. That's the place for it. But when it starts to get conflicted or tense or disconnected or lonely or fighting, and it starts to fall away with more separateness, less intimacy, more contention, more like a turning away -- you can picture a couple with their backs to each other -- this is the recipe for infidelity, because then someone outside the relationship, very benign, could just give a little bit of attention, really slight. "Oh, look, you look great in that shirt. Oh, that joke was funny. The joke you said at the meeting was funny. Oh, did you get a haircut? You look nice." Any sort of being responded to, it could be the beginning of a connection outside the primary relationship or the marriage. It's that slight.

I think that's so important. It gets to some universal human needs, that we all want to feel that we're heard, we're understood, we're appreciated, and that we're not being ignored.

Oh, yes. Being responded to very much like the mother baby. Right? The baby cries, the mother turns and responds, comforts the baby. I mean, really, this maternal bond analogy is really spot on because -- we're going to get a little fancy now. Are you ready?  

Oh, I'm buckled in!

Okay. Because we're going into the graduate school level. We've moved up! But the fancy, more advanced, let's say, is having couples emotionally regulate with each other. They really are one unit, a singular unit with two moving parts. So to go back to the baby example... I always use this example in session. If any of my clients are watching this, like, "Oh man, we've heard this before. There she goes again," but it goes like this. The child cries, the little one cries, the mother, tuned into the baby because they're bonded, sees the baby in distress, or hears the cries and does this: comfort, soothe, reassure. You try to quell the crying. You respond, and the baby and the mom are kind of in sync in this way.

Similarly, the romantic couple, couples that work well, have a very good relationship, secure relationship if when they see the partner in distress, upset, angry, stressed -- in a sense, the crying child, in essence -- they can respond in a way that comforts them, that soothes, comforts. Rock the baby like this couples, especially bright ones, educated, really intelligent couples, I  say to them in session, "The problem is, you're too bright, you're too educated." It's a problem. They want to respond intellectually, like solve the problem. Problem. Solution, right? No, it's really an emotional response. "I see you're upset, dear. Come here. Okay. Come here. All right. Tell me all about it." Like a mother would soothe the baby. So a couple's ability to comfort, soothe and reassure each other would be a marker of a good relationship.

It's not “communication” per say, like the words. It's the feeling of when I'm in distress, when I'm in pain, when I'm upset, when something's happened to me, something disturbing, that I can turn to my partner and feel better. The fancy term for that is "emotional regulation." We heard a lot about emotional regulation during COVID because of the high stress, but with the self -- yoga, meditation, how to calm yourself down. We really do it with one another.

During the pandemic, I'm sure you must have noticed some changes generally within couples.

Oh, my gosh. A big thing was one partner being very cautious, you know, quite careful maneuvering the COVID world and the other being more cavalier about it, which is not keeping them safe, you know? You want to keep each other safe. So it goes to the point of safety. So when it was kind of out of sync. One would say, "Oh, the mask, whatever" and the other one was jumpy. They would be out of sync because you have to keep the partner safe, even if you don't want to do those things.

That's so fascinating.

And I've seen couples where both parties worked from home and had children in school, working from home. It was so stressful. My heart went out to them. They had the hardest time. Everybody at home on a computer. I mean, it was just... Or little ones, or preschool, and schools, as you know, would suddenly be closed in an instant. And then the parents are scrambling. It was very, very hard.

Right. So much unpredictability, and especially if people were not going out there, if you wanted to get away, you can't get away.

 And perhaps you heard -- it was pretty popular that after COVID started to quiet down, we heard of this, I believe, first in China. I guess there's some numbers here, too, to support it -- the divorce rates spiked. That's because people were together all the time. It was too much. They may be together, but it was forced. It was not by choice. Locked down, you know, you're stuck. The forced nature of it was probably more of a factor than simply... I can almost hear the listener say, "No, it was being together all the time!"

Did you find that after the pandemic, there's still some of that? Being on your phone was an issue even before the pandemic. Do you see an increase in people being unable to get off their phones and, like you said, eye gaze at each other, acknowledge each other?

Very much so. There is some fallout from the pandemic. Maybe now some adjustments going back to work. I mean, it really required a lot of... People had to be reliant on each other and maneuvering the extended family.  I gave a simple example of sort of following protocol or not, and being different within the relationship, but also family gathering. All these challenges, the couple had to figure that out together. Socializing. There was a lot of layers of this.  

It's so interesting that it's more than "communication", as in what words you can communicate, what concepts. There's all these other layers to it that's so fascinating. People really have to look inward at themselves. Do you have any words of advice for people who are not good with emotions, or not good with that inward-looking aspect?

 So I just wanted to go back to something you said first, if I could. So if a marriage counselor -- which is actually quite common and I don't agree with it, I feel differently -- do does focus on the wording, the idea behind it, "If I just express what I need, clearly it'll all be understood, all I have to do is say it well" and "I told you that I needed ___," but with the furrowed brow and the angry voice, they're going to listen to the furrowed brow and the angry voice. It's more the EMOTIONAL content of what is being said. People are picking up on the tone, the tenor, the mood. Basically, it's always, "Do you love me?" At the end of the day, it's always, "Does my partner love me? Am I disappointing them, or are they happy with me?" Look, don't tell anyone I told you this, okay, but at the end of the day, we're all just two-years-old, little babies, with very, very primal feelings of wanting to be loved and responded to that we matter. It's very, very basic in this way. It doesn't have to be fancy talk, you know?  

Right. Such a great concept that really brings it down for people to a very basic, basic thing, but so hugely important.

We have a hard time being vulnerable. This analogy of the mother/baby. They say, "Well, I'm not a baby. I'm an adult. I should be self-sufficient. I should be, you know, tough or strong or independent." Okay. Out in the world, okay. But in the intimate relationship, that is the place to be vulnerable, dependent, softer, tender. Show your emotions. And that really speaks to the second part of what you said. So people do have a hard time with that. The world is tough, right? You've got to be strong. You've got to put on a happy face, go to work. People cut you off on the road or in the store. It's kind of rough out there! But at home, the private relationship is the place to be vulnerable, tender, soft, relaxed, you know, nurtured, gentle, flirty, sexy. It all belongs in that intimate relationship. Some couples say, "I'm independent. I'm strong-minded. I can take care of myself." Well, in that relationship, there needs to be that softer interdependence. It is dependent. It's not tough. Softer. I sometimes I say, "Softer, a little softer." I say maybe to a husband, "Would you like it if she was a little softer with you?" "Oh, yes. Yes, I would really like that!" 

That's such an important distinction. When you're outside, when you're out in business or the supermarket or out in the world, versus when you're in the home or you're with that other person, with your partner, that is an important distinction. There's two different ways to approach that.

That's right. A lot of the common ways with couples is to kind of use this "corporate" way of problem/solution. Right? Of explaining yourself effectively, or if you're talking about -- this is a fun one -- the division of labor in the household, who takes out the garbage, to make these lists and put them on a chart, dividing up the tasks, I mean, it happens, and maybe it works, but it just seems a little... organization-like. The romantic relationship needs to be treated differently. It is softer, tender. It's about the feelings. It's never about the dishes in the sink or the trash can or who takes out what. It always means, "Do you love me?" They'll say, "Why are we fighting so passionately over the dishes? It's just a small matter. I can't believe we're going at it this ferociously over the dishes. It's just the dishes!" Well, it means, "Do you love me? Do you respect me? Do you care? Do I matter to you? Did you hear what I said?" It's never just about the dishes.  

So the takeaway is, it's never just about the dishes! That's such great advice. I was going to ask you if you had any tips or words of advice for our audience, but you've already sprinkled in so many of them. Are there any other good ones that you think people should know about?

So, again, I like these ideas that are simple but researched and solid. They sound silly or small on the face of it, but honestly, there is some science to back it up. There's a little simple rhythm back and forth with the couple, and we call it "reach and respond" and it's very important. It's quite powerful, actually. The "reach" is if either you or your partner is trying to get your attention. The reach could be reaching with their hand, looking your way, saying," Can you come and sit with me? Can you give me a hug? Can I tell you about my day?" It's a little gesture to connect. You know, "I want you to turn to me. I need you to reach." The "response" part of that rhythm, that back and forth, is basically some version of "Yes." So your partner turns to you or you turn to your partner, you reach. "Can you sit with me? Can you give me a hug? What do you think about this? Can you hear me out? Can you have a cup of tea with me on the sofa? Let's dance in the kitchen. I had this conversation with my sister. What do you think? Or about the children." And the partner basically says, "Yes, I'm here for you." So the reach is a gesture to connect. You look, you turn, and the partner turns back, "You can come to me. I'm here for you. I am here. You can count on me responding to you."  

I love that. That's such a great, simple visual, but it's so powerful.

It's very powerful because people are always reading the slights, you know? Like say someone's on their phone and the partner asks a question and they answer the question. They said, "I heard you, I answered you" but they didn't look up and smile and connect. No. They felt the "I'm not important enough to you to have your attention," which it can, if it gets too extreme, lead to connecting outside the relationship for that, and it doesn't take much.  

Do you find it's fairly equal among men and women? You hear a lot in movies and television shows, they tell us that it's only the women that can't communicate -- they're sending mixed messages. Do you find it's really kind of equal between men and women, that desire to be heard and responded to?

Probably I would say the females are a little more tuned into that, a little more vigilant. The men are probably less attuned to it. But once we start working, once they become aware in session, they do respond. There are differences. There are gender differences. But they want to get that rhythm, that back and forth working, so that they can tune in. To go back to the emotional regulation, when you're reading that your partner's in distress, sometimes couples do this: they'll say, "Oh, I know that look. He's pissed/she's pissed. I stay away." I say, "Oh, maybe that's counterintuitive. You should go toward the person when they are in pain." It's essentially the crying child. A couple's ability to comfort, soothe and reassure is critical. I am having this difficult emotion, stress, anxiety, worry, disappointment, embarrassed, whatever it is that's a harder emotion, but with my partner responding to me sensitively, I feel I'm not alone in my pain. That's very, very important to not be like this with the baby. You don't leave the baby crying. You respond.

Is there an ideal client for you in terms of certain personality traits, or is it just more of a general willingness to be able to listen and take suggestions? Do you ever run into clients who are beyond help? Is anybody beyond help, or is it just about making little changes? You mentioned you do an intake form. Can you tell through the form that there there are red flags, that this is someone maybe you don't want to work with, versus someone where it seems like, "This will lead to some kind of effective, positive outcome"? Do you ever get a sense of that?

I mean, it's all different. I don't have a feeling of a preferred type of person, and you never know until you really get in there and start working, but it's really about an ability to soften that external sharpness, soften that hardness or too much intellectual -- where they're more in the head. Like a lot of times, couples will fight in a way that they sound like they're lawyers in the courtroom making a case. "If only I could get him or her to see it my way, the right way, we may be okay." You know, isn't it obvious that this is "the right way." They become lawyers in the courtroom or on the debate team. They're making a case.

 I teach them that the first step is to connect. Like to go back to this invisible, crying child example, let's suppose the child was a toddler crying, my child's sitting on the floor playing with some toys and started crying. But there's another child there, a playmate, and my child threw a block at the other child's head and the other child hit him or threw a toy item and hit him. I want to talk to my child about not doing that. "Don't do that." I want to give a parenting lesson. Instead, if the child's crying from getting hit with a toy or something, I have to first comfort. After the tears have calmed down, then I can say, "You know, that's probably not a good idea. Did you know that before he threw the book at you or whatever, you threw a block at your friend and it hurt him? Don't do that." While they're crying, I can't reach them. They're crying. It's the same thing with the romantic pair. When the couple's in distress -- "I'm upset, I'm anxious, I'm worried. This happened" -- they often go to problem-solution. "Well, have you tried this? Here's the fix." They want the partner to calm down because they feel it, but it's much more about the emotional response first. First, soothe them. "I am with you. You're not alone in your pain. Come here. Okay. Tell me all about it." Then once they're stabilized, they're a little more grounded, then you can talk about the issue at hand. Is this making sense? 

That's a fantastic tip right there.

 Yeah, it's very important.  

It feeds into that awareness, being aware of social cues and how you react.

That's really the heart. The main thing of how I work with couples is getting them to tune into each other, rather than talk to me about were they right or were they wrong, "Should they have done this?" It doesn't matter really. It's what is the effect of them, on the partner, if they say, "Isn't it silly that that that would upset her? It's not a big deal! Why does she get so upset?" It doesn't matter. It upsets her. There's no external list or rule of, "These things are okay" or "it's not." It doesn't matter, my thought on it or judgment. It's just to get that back and forth, reading, responding, tuning into the emotional state and responding in a way that helps steady the partner because it steadies you.

In the example with the child, when the child's in distress, I'm in distress. I can't be calm if my child's crying. I can't sit here twiddling my thumbs. If my child's in distress, I'm going to feel it. So it's to my benefit to calm the child. If I soothe the child and the baby stops crying, I calm down. It's like a boomerang or something. It's the same thing with the couple. It's to the partner's benefit to soothe, comfort, and reassure the partner. It helps them steady. If I see my partner's upset... Let's say they just came in. They had a little fender bender and they're all worked up. The partner is going to get upset, you know, get kind of worked up. "What happened? Are you okay?"  So first you wanted to calm them down, steady them. It's good for you. It's not just a give. Sometimes a woman might say, "Why do I have to calm him down? Why do I have to do the work?" You know what I mean? But I say, it's to your benefit. It's the rhythm of the two. It's good for you. It's to your benefit.

This is all so fascinating.

A little bit counterintuitive, right? 

It's such great advice, not only if you're in a couple, but just even people who are single, this idea of being aware of your own actions and how that can cause a reaction in someone else, or even in business when you have multiple employees and someone's emotional or not working, or that whole phenomenon of "quiet quitting." That's great advice to carry, as well, into the workplace.

It really does have applications. You know, the attachment theory, which this is about, this is related to attachment theory started with the parental, the parent attachment to the child, but it does have application to the workplace with your neighbor, with your friends. It's really about tuning into the emotional effect of what that person might be feeling and address that. I'm glad you can see the bigger application. But in the intimate relationship, it's critical. It's central. It's the crux of it.  

Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your experience, your insight about these things. I think it can help anybody who's in a relationship -- maybe they realize that they're doing some things that they should not do.

Yeah. Along the same lines, anger is basically hurt. Anger is hurt. People express it, "Oh, he or she is so angry." Well, they're scared or they're hurt. If you kind of looked behind anger or could lift it up and see what was behind, you know, deeper, what you'd find is scared. "I'm scared. I'm afraid. I'm worried. That's scaring me. I'm frightened to say something. I'm worried. I feel uneasy." A more vulnerable feeling is generally behind the anger. Anger is so easy. It's the first thing -- you know. "I'm angry. I'm so angry at..." And that's basically hurt. Think of it as, "I'm hurt. I'm hurt."  

That's right. People will see anger and maybe they want to run away or they react in some way, But there could be more to it.

It's almost counterintuitive. Like, "Oh, he's angry. I'm going to leave him alone. I better leave her alone," but really, they're in pain, essentially. 

Do you ever run into couples or individuals where some of their habits maybe come from their parents, or things that they saw growing up and things that they think are okay because they learned by watching? Do you ever have to walk people through that?

Definitely, without question. Whatever we learned in our first family, those were the first teachers of love. Right? That relationship is our first family. So it comes up a lot when when they start to connect the dots on those things and have greater insight as to why there might be a particular relation response. It does help. It helps a lot. And you can tell sometimes when a reaction to something seems stronger than you would think, for that occurrence. I'll say, "Oh, that was a very powerful response. It seemed almost like it didn't fit the incident." It often is tied to something before the partner came along. So sometimes in session I'll say, "Hold that thought, we're going to veer off the road. Let's just... Let's go on the side road. We'll come back. But let me let me go off-road for a moment. Tell me if you can, just briefly, your experience in your first family, with mom, dad, what was your family like?" We just go off-road for a moment, and then it often ties back in. I say, "Oh, yeah, I see. Now it makes sense."  

That's so fascinating — the things that we pick up that we might not be aware of, why we react in certain ways.

This is why I love my work. It is fascinating. I do love my work. It's very interesting.  

Are there any other things that I didn't ask you about that you think you'd like to share?

Here's something this helps a lot. People will say, for example, "sometimes I just need space," right? "I need space." And they say, "I want to go in the next room" or "I want a weekend away. I need some distance." Right? "I need a little time to myself." Sure. That's really reasonable. It's understandable. It happens, right? But it has a better outcome if you add reassurance. You almost can never go wrong by adding reassurance. I call it "the reassurance card." You play it. It's like, "I love you, dear", "I'm happy to be with you." You say something loving, give some loving reassurance before the thing that's going to sting a little bit. A couple needs much more reassurance that they're loved and that they matter, more than you think.

So if you think of couples having a job description, a role, a function, right? The function, your job as a partner or spouse, is to make your partner or spouse feel both loved and desired. That's your job. You give your partner reassurance that they are loved, that you love them, and you want them. Desire is the physical, sexual piece. Your partner has the same job description. You both do! Always give reassurance that your partner is both loved and desired. Even more than you think. They say, "Oh, he knows/she knows/they know I love them." It's helpful to let it be blatantly clear. Lots of reassurance. It can't hurt. 

It sounds like such a hugely important thing that doesn't necessarily have to be achieved by a very grand gesture, that there are very little ways to do that.

Yes, absolutely. Couples sometimes say, "We need the weekly date night. We need the luxury vacation." No, it's the small interactions in the day. I'll ask them something like, "When you wake up in the morning, if you wake up at the same time, do you kiss upon waking?" They say "No." I'll say, "Do that. Kiss in the morning or hug or maintain eye contact for a second." They say, "Wow, that's a big deal!" Or in the comings and goings of the day, you walk in from the end of the day, I say, "What happens when you walk in from the end of the day?" "I greet the dog. I get the mail. I see the kid." No, the new way is "each other, first." Kiss or hug. So it's these little moments that are way more important than the fancy vacation or the date and the date nights. You know, I'm not opposed to it, but it's not necessary, really. You don't have to be rigid about it, but you need time to focus on each other. It depends on what happens in the date night. If you're looking away or on your phone, then there's no connection. It's really about the connecting.

Both small, but incredibly important things that you can do.

It's basically if your partner looks your way or needs you, you respond, "I'm here for you." Can you access your partner for your emotional needs? Will they respond? They look up [at you].  You've got to treat each other like you're the most important person in the whole world to each other. Because you are. That's your most important person in the whole world. And it should look like that.  

Right. Little steps but big impact. That's very eye-opening. Thank you for sharing that. There are so many fantastic things that I'm sure people who are reading this, watching this, listening to this will stop and think, "Oh, that thought never crossed my mind that I'm doing this or should be doing this or my life could be better or the life of my partner could be better, my relationships in other areas of my life could be better if I did these little things." There are really far-reaching benefits. So thank you. Thank you for sharing!

That would be great if it's helpful to your readers and listeners and viewers.   

If people want to reach out to you, if they're like, "Oh, I love everything that you've said, it could really help me in my relationship," what's the best way to reach out to you? Do you have a website? Should they call you, email you? What's the best way?

The hub of it all really is the website. My practice's name is Open Door Therapy. The website is opendoortherapy.net. From there, you can see my email address which is Terry@opendoortherapy.net, and my phone number is 908-403-9300. And I have a little appointment request form. You can fill that out. You can send me a message. But all roads lead to Open Door Therapy. My social media and things on there.

I have a podcast called Love Bonds, which is on Apple Podcasts and Amazon music. It recently got a little recognition for being recommended as one of the better podcasts for infidelity and couples therapy. So that was kind of nice to be recognized in that way. My blog has the same name, lovebonds.net.  

I'm definitely going to check those out. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise, your knowledge, and your passion and enthusiasm for what you do with not only us, but also with all of the people that you help.

Thank you so much. It really was such a pleasure.